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Souria's Social Room
Started by maz_java at 12-22-2007 04:38 AM. Topic has 25 replies.
  
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 12-22-2007, 04:38 AM
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maz_java
 
Joined on 12-14-2005
سبحان من ريحنا من هالبلد
Posts 2,022
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http://www.venganza.org/
I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
UFO
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12-22-2007, 12:58 PM
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sureee
Joined on 11-20-2005
Posts 301
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12-22-2007, 07:21 PM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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it's very smart. they r making fun of the "theory" of intelligent design.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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12-23-2007, 11:50 PM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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![Thinking [::/]](/club/emoticons/thinking.gif)
Re: is this for real ?
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Well, they are not very smart… otherwise they wouldn’t mock like this! They have no idea about the principle: Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. Galatians 6:7
And it just doesn’t matter, if they believe it or not, but they will surely reap!
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12-24-2007, 12:17 AM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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they are not mocking god. they are mocking the theory of intelligent design. jesus did not preach any theories of science.. it's all in the evangelists' heads.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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12-24-2007, 02:19 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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I agree with you, He just preached the truth, performed miracles, rose again and He is coming soon. Science/mankind is just discovering, what He has created and their had becoming big over it. Too bad for them!
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12-24-2007, 02:22 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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correction: ...what He has created and their head is getting big! Too bad for them.
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12-24-2007, 06:18 AM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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If you believe they are discovering what Jesus has created, then why are you upset at them or feel bad for them? i don't understand. so for you, God created this world, and they are only trying to understand how.. for them.. it seems like it's evolution that brought us to what we are today.. they are only trying to understand the world. they are doing us all a big favor. why do u feel like they deserve punishment from God? it's strange.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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12-26-2007, 01:31 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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Hmm, if they would try to understand, there is nothing wrong with it! But they are claiming to understand it and force their doctrine on our children. That’s a whole different story!
Quote: why do u feel like they deserve punishment from God? it's strange. Well, I am not their judge, but read Rev. 21:8 and the unbelievers are included. They will have no excuse. And if they truly would like to understand, God would give them direction and understanding in all aspects. If you could check out their teaching a 100 years from now, their current view would be as obsolete, as the stuff they thought some decades ago…
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12-27-2007, 02:11 AM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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 Jedidiah777 wrote: | Hmm, if they would try to understand, there is nothing wrong with it! But they are claiming to understand it and force their doctrine on our children. That’s a whole different story!
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they are not one body of american atheists who are trying to foce something on your children. This is a theory of international proportions. scientists all over the world embrace this work and they don't "claim to understand it".. they show the evidence, and then they interpret the evidence. the evidence says so, it's not them. it's not a doctrine. although the main lines of the theory are solid, many things change. science is very dynamic.. it's anything but a doctine. however i can't blame u for thinking it's a doctine because u mainly work with hard doctrines.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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12-30-2007, 01:07 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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Sorry for a late response with just a couple of lines, I am just very busy right now.
Well, you are right with the word “theory” and the international proportion does make the crowd, who is wrong, only bigger. It’s a deception.
I never heard or read about any evidence of this theory. (see, here is just a claim) The theory is only solid in their mind…
…and there are false doctrines out there, but that only means that there is also a true one. Don’t know what you mean with hard doctrine.
People, who believe in evolution have a huge faith! I have faith in God and experience Him every day, He is real. Wish, you get to know Him.
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12-30-2007, 07:40 PM
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LostParadise
Joined on 11-20-2005
Posts 5,572
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| Jedidiah777 wrote: |
I never heard or read about any evidence of this theory. (see, here is just a claim) The theory is only solid in their mind…
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hehe
sorry to interfere but I must say something here
there are like millions of really strong scientific evidences to support evolution, but not a single scientific evidence to say anything about creation.... moreover.... evolution explains like 99.99% of everything, while creation explains absolutely nothing.... ie: 0%!!!
the problem is that most ppl don't know anything about science and evolution and they only criticise it because it contradicts with their faith!!.... just like how the middle ages church did to ppl like Galileo!!.... this is something not acceptable in the 21st century...... like totally unacceptable and I urge the scientists around the world to have 0% tolerance against these ppl.
intelligent design is just a good example of how ppl think about science..... and how faith can interfere in science and makes us think irrationally!!
cheers
I'm lovin Emirates 
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01-03-2008, 10:36 PM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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| Jedidiah777 wrote: |
You are dreaming, please give me this evidence, I know only of thousands missing links and confusion…
The more science advance, the more dubious this theory becomes! And your zeal and 0% tolerance against people that don’t share these views smell religious …
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Evolution is really not a topic for discussion between non science people. do scientist come and argue with you about things like the nature of christ or the history of the church from theological perspectives? no they don't. so why do u venture into something that you are not an expert in? Evolution is a theory and thus a biological fact. A theory is not something that awaits verification, it's already verified and considered as fact whether you like the theory for religious reasons or not. Evolution is something very central in Biology.. probably only after the main dogma of biology which is defining what biological matter is.. as opposed to physical. evolution is a real process that occurs by means of an accidental non-random process called natural selection.. (keep this in mind, it's not random but rather highly selective, it's only accidental because mutations are accidental and don't have foresight). And to discuss evolution (or any other theory in biology, math, physics), you need to EARN the right and honor of doing so by going to university and gaining a Ph.D in that subject.. only then you will be kinda qualified to discuss it.. anything less than that means that you should only listen and take notes.
what you mention as "missing links" is not true. I hope you take what i say to you seriously because i'm trained in the life and biological sciences and you are not. what you use against Evolution, such as fossil records, is actually something that support evolution.. and as the late (and amazing - check out his books.. wonderful and eye opening) Dr. Carl Sagan says.. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". so if we can't find a certain fossil, that doesn't mean it didn't exist.. i think you have an appreciation of how large the surface of the earth is, and how deep the area that fossils can be found in is.. people find these things usually by random.. or some intelligent searching using clues.. but in no way they can ever search all of the earth's crust!! .. not to mention animals that did not form fossils..
other than fossils, morphological and behavioral similarities give a strong evidence for evolution. not to mention the undisputable evidence that later emerged from Molecular Biology (DNA, RNA, Protein studies)... and that was well after Darwin's times.
It's really not up to me to teach you about evolution (it's not my science field), grab any university level biology book and read about it. things don't enter biology text books in random.. any sentence you find in a biology book took about 5 years of work of a Master's or Ph.D student's life.. something like evolution and the amount of sciences that emerged from it took the equivalent of a few hundred years of human work..
if you want to learn about evolution in a fun and stimulating way you can read the following books:
By Richard Dawkins: the selfish gene, the blind watchmaker, climbing mount improbable
By Carl Sagan: Dragons out of Eden..
Anything by the above authors is worth of reading..
If you have any sincere questions feel free to ask.. but please try to respect that fact that people have to earn the right to discuss matters of such complexity and importance by being educated and trained in these matters.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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01-04-2008, 03:41 AM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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Correction: Carl Sagan's book is The Dragons of Eden.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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01-04-2008, 08:22 PM
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LostParadise
Joined on 11-20-2005
Posts 5,572
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01-06-2008, 02:12 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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Well, there are a lot of scientists out there with good qualifications that don’t agree with evolution. Evolution is a very complex construct of ideas that has evolved into a philosophy or world view. (that is the only thing that has evolved) One who believes in evolution or creation can’t be a master of all these science fields involved, because it is so complex.
I agree with you stalwart: As I view evolution I was wrong using the word “theory”, when looking at the word’s definition. Sorry about that. Evolution can’t be defined as theory, because it’s based on allegation/claims/assertions.
Evolution misuses science to make it look scientific, with lack of proof. Until now there are just question marks and more question marks. Unless there are facts all is speculation and thus not science. Biology, astronomy, biogenetic, mathematic, physics etc are sciences and evolution tries to explain a world view with these sciences, but by no means is evolution a biological fact. For the evidence of creation around us eternity would not yield enough time to produce it! Just consider a brain, an eye, organs and even the complexity of one little cell means troubles for evolution. You need faith in order to believe that all has evolved.
The fact that evolution made it into school books doesn’t proof it correct. (check out some older school books with evolution in it, it’s a crime, what was spread) and just check out school books in different countries about history, politics etc, it all depends how people want to believe. And even if a majority believes in something: being right and winning a debate has nothing to do with each other.
I am very excited by all the findings science discover, it gives me conformation that there is a creator! I am a simply person and have not a Master or Ph.D, but this does not mean that I have to swallow everything what people teach about evolution and call it science. I consider evolution a very disputable philosophy and not science.
There are thousands of objections to evolution, some we discussed. (about missing links: there should be at least some animals to be found to show transition. And still a fact: no chance to reproduce within different kinds). Generally in evolution thousands of impossibilities are ignored or explained away without giving facts. And I don't see how Molecular Biology gives undisputable evidence to support evolution. Yes, I am not a scientist and my opinion doesn't count in this aspect, but there are other scientists in these fields out there, who dispute and oppose this strongly.
I have thousands of questions (but thanks for the offer that I could ask, also appreciate that you shared your view in a kind way and thanks for the recommendation of these books, if I find time, I will read them), but would not turn to evolution for an answer, cuz I know they have millions of questions...
…and something else, it’s good to search and ask, but the frightening question: what mankind does with knowledge? It can be a very dangerous issue, especially when people believe they don’t need to give account to their Maker.
There are also other questions involved in this issue among scientists, whether one supports evolution or not, like peer pressure, funding, conformity and finding a job...
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01-06-2008, 09:20 AM
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stalwart
Joined on 11-19-2005
من حومص الأبيي
Posts 5,069
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It seems like our "discussion" will end here.. you are making things up in your own mind and I highly doubt it that you even read any contemporary science book about evolution or even glanced at the intro chapter.. there are many university level books out there that talk about the subject and they are very easy to follow.. i don't understand how a person can argue about something he doesn't know at all!
but just a final few words.. there are NO scientists who diasagree with evolution and I challenge you to give me their names and verifiable links to their published data that opposes evolution.
and I did not say that evolution was not a theory.. it is indeed a theory.
finally, please don't say "believe" in evolution and creationism in the same sentence. you make it sound as if it's the same "method" of believing and it's not. scientists don't "believe" blindly in things.. they have evidence and then they formulate theories and ideas around that evidence.. you folks have "ideas" then you look for evidence that would support your idea.. the exact opposite direction of work
I will just end it here. have a good day.
هلم بنا نحستي الجعة
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01-07-2008, 01:49 AM
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Jedidiah777
Joined on 02-22-2006
Posts 618
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![Smiley [:)]](/club/emoticons/smiley.gif)
Re: is this for real ?
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Stalwart, if you put in google parameters like “scientists favor creation”, scientists support creation”, “scientists Christians”, scientists became Christians” etc will you will find all that you have asked… (there are lists of Dr.’s, Prof.’s / scientists out there, who believe in creation. Check out the web, if evolution is really so undisputed as you argue… Quote: there are NO scientists who diasagree with evolution – give me a break!
Just one sample website with scientists listed:: http://www.tektonics.org/scim/sciencemony.htm (you can scroll through an alphabet, didn’t check all the other input of the website, sorry, no time)
Also check out stats, polls, etc, it’s all out there. But again, majority is never a proof of being right, so this is no argument for creation or evolution!
Quote: finally, please don't say "believe" in evolution and creationism in the same sentence. you make it sound as if it's the same "method" of believing and it's not. scientists don't "believe" blindly in things.. they have evidence and then they formulate theories and ideas around that evidence.. you folks have "ideas" then you look for evidence that would support your idea.. the exact opposite direction of work
We all would hear about it one day, when this “evidence” truly is at hand and surface. I don’t expect it. But hey, they owe us facts and I am not the only the one, who doesn't see them. There are more educated people out there, than I am, who don't support/agree evolution. I will always be very critical of everything produced/thought by humans, because none of them are infallible! (science, politics, media etc.) Plus and most important, I have a daily relationship with my God/Creator. Anyone who truly gets to know Him, is in awe of Him and His creation.
I wish you also a good day and God bless you, Stalwart!
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01-07-2008, 04:10 AM
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LostParadise
Joined on 11-20-2005
Posts 5,572
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| Jedidiah777 wrote: | |
sure....
u just remind me about the great study of Prof. Zaghlol Najar in which he proved that Meca is the centre of the earth (and maybe the universe.... not sure about this bit) hehe
I would say.... give urself a break and keep ur faith with u..... me myself totally respect ur faith (no matter what that faith is), but please..... please...... if it happens and science says something that may contradicts with ur believe and faith.... just let it go..... as if u didn't hear or read about it..... this way.... we can develop our world (by means of science) in order to build better future to our children knowing that we have already reached 6.2 billions.... so we need to develop our world.... invent and create.... inorder to survive and the only way to develop ourselves is science....... faith wont feed my children and grand children after all!.... so stop the war against science!!
cheers!
I'm lovin Emirates
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01-09-2008, 01:12 AM
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